US MW Nats List

Since the lists had to be turned in to Joe Krone two weeks ago, I decided to go ahead and post the list.

Here it is...

US Rifles.

I thought a lot about this list and about other lists in MW.  Outside of US Armored Rifles, my MW lists are confined to US Armor and Brit Paras (Italy).

So how did I get here?

Armored Rifles were easy to consider.  Great list, great mobility and great integrated AT (if you buy the zooks).  Add in Shermans and US TDs (a MUST have!!) and you have great punching ability that can defend.

Brit Paras - thought about it, but my problem in previous games was the lack of mobility and armor support.  Yes, you can get armor but 3 vehicle armor platoons are just too fragile.  So I threw this guys out of consideration.

US Rifles - the list above and one variant that I ran in my last tournament (and won!!  first time!!) were also considered.  V3 brought out some goodies for infantry, the biggest was driving off armored assaults with two "bad things happening" in Defensive Fire.  You get a hit with a 'zook and bad things are going to happen!

Tankovy - ahh, the 'ole stand by.  In MW, Hen and Chicks has not yet been point adjusted, so you could have some fun.  But at 1,625, you don't have the full power of the Soviet lists.  The only list I considered had 10 T-34s, 10 Lend Lease Stewies, 3 SU-85s and 3 BT-64 (recon).  I still like that list.  If I were to run an armored company, I would do this one.  Fearless Trained and they can move and shoot.  But see the earlier comment about assaulting with armor and it is even worse for Soviets.  10 vehicles (trained no less) closing in on a platoon with 3 bazookas are not favorable odds.

Since I don't run Germans, it came down to ARP or Rifles.  That left me with one question:

Do I want to attack infantry or defend against mech?  Bluntly, do I want to attack my Rifle list or defend against my ARP list?  I chose to defend.  And the other simple truth is that I am not that good at running ARP.  Yes, they are awesome.  But they need to be in the right hands.

The easiest part about this decision?

USA.  Not jingoistic here - in terms of game play for MW, getting 4 Shermans and 4 TDs on the table is too good to pass up.  Way to good to pass up!  I have an ambush?  Take the easy way - ambush teh Shermans and the TDs already have the TD ambush.  Bring it.  Even against the tankovy horde, I am hitting on 2+ or 3+.  8 Shermans shots get 4-6 hits and 8 TD shots get the same.  The horde will be shredded and will not have enough strength to assault infantry.  So I am feeling good about that situation.

The "killer" list?

German Panzergrens with Remer.  That is the one that I fear and that I think is even stronger that ARP.  Remer is that good!  Basically, the list has Remer, 2 PGren platoons, Nebs, maybe recon and two platoons of armor (Panzer IIIs / IVs).  Yes, you could even go with a platoon on Panzer IIIs and a Tiger.  Either way, that is a beast of a list.  Up against my list, it will all depend on mission, terrain and players.  If I get them in FW, I will feel a little better.  Breakthrough?  uggh.  Surrounded?  I might just see if I could get a 2-5 before the game starts and head to the bar!

So if you are going to Historicon, be sure to say hi!  I will be the pasty skinned guy / baby seal from Wisconsin...

My Therapist said... It is ok to criticize Battlefront

For those of you who don't hang out on the FoW forum or the WWPD Forum, here is a post I made earlier:




This has been bugging me a bit, so I thought I would just come out with it and release my deep breath when done. I am not trying to be flippant either - I have struggled with this one. So I have finally gotten to a spot where I can say:

It is ok to criticize Battlefront.

Let that sink in for a minute. I am big with the "everyone has a vote" and "my beliefs do not require you to believe" view of the world.

But like my favorite sports teams, I can be a fan and still lament poor trades, poor play and still live and die by the results! And I will still wear the jersey / kit and I will still celebrate the big win over the biggest rival.

And this leads me to my riff on BF:

I love you guys! I like the models, the rules, the books - heck everything! I was giddy when I received my V3 rulebook, I was excited the first time Phil chimed in on one of my forum posts and I was really excited when I played my first tournament. But like my sports team above, I can chime in with what I see are issues / problems with the books, rules, business model, etc. It doesn't make me right and this is not about being right. It is just about making a better game - but still being polite about it.

• There are problems with EW. I believe those problems to be based on points. I just don't understand from a game mechanic that an MG gun / infantry team can cost about the same as a vehicle with a MG. Same price, but I get armor and a 12" to 16" inch move? Really? Others like to point to the BAR issue as a problem with EW, but hey - a mistake was made and fixed. Did they go too far? Maybe. And yes, I have 20+ BAR vehicles on my table to be painted that I just can't get motivated to finish.

• The plastic Sherman from Actung! is bad. Really bad. Not sure that the fix is here, but there are other options for the beginner that will take away from BF. I hope they get this right...

• I don't like the point differences between Turning Tide, V3 Forces, BGG and the quick look at DC that I got last Friday at my FLGS. Having experienced other game systems and their model of "the newest list is always the strongest" (some call it Codex Creep) I have to say that I can understand people having this view with respect to BF. I will admit to wanting to give BF the benefit of the doubt here, but right now things are just a bit off. I was really angry with the point cost of a Sherman vs. Panzer IV in V3 Forces, then only to see the cost of a base Sherman go down in BGG. And there was just a handful of weeks between the two releases!

• Please, ambushing PSV is plain dumb. I have read all the posts and threads on this subject, but come on! Recon cruises down a road only to have wire pop up behind them on the same road. No amount of "historical info" will change my mind. This is a game mechanic that is simply wrong.

• LW war is headed towards EW right now. The split into EW / MW / LW is arbitrary from BF. There is no vodoo here or special reasons. It just helps the game mechanic. But as we progress later into '44 and '45, the points will get completely out of whack. If they don't, then it just means that the list that is fielded from the latest point in the war will be the strongest.

• It is a game, not a recreation of history. Some decisions will need to be made based on the game over history. See PSV ambush above as an example. So vehicles found themselves surprised in a mine field. So what? Saying that an ambushed PSV recreates this is dumb. A minefield didn't always sprout up in the perfect spot everytime. Arguing over stats and historical accuracy is also interesting. I am sure that somewhere in history, a 37mm gun blew a track off of a Tiger or Panther and immobilized it. Does that mean that a 37mm gun in LW should have the ability to bail a tank? Nope. Poor game mechanic if it did. So this is a game that represents history or potential history. Sometimes it seems like we all get a bit caught up in the history argument and forget that we play with toy soldiers.

• Finally, this is a business for BF. Making a game that is fun is good business. Promoting the hobby and the game itself is good business. Not alienating the FLGS is good business. Creating a fair game to play is good business. What is not good business is forgetting that the hobby is expensive. On this point I am candid - I can afford all the toy soldiers and books that I want. I am lucky and blessed. But I never assume everyone else is in the same boat. I see young players who save money and buy 1 Panther at a time. I see young professionals that have taken 6 months to purchase two platoons due to life issues, financial constraints and time. I am concerned about "compilations" and what it means to this game and BF. It is not good business to render LW Eastern Front books "useless in tournaments" a mere 12 months after publication. It is not good business to make my list from D-Day simply not competitive with later book releases. What do you say to the poor person that saved and invested time into the hobby, just to make the list they loved not a viable list for a tournament? I know tournaments shouldn't rule the game - really I do! But do consider this for a moment – on average, tournament players will spend more money in the hobby than non-tournament players. Can’t we have a game that works for both? My fun in tournaments is meeting new people and having fun. But if I travel to Historicon to play in the tournament, I would like to think that my list has a fair chance. And right now my CV list for US Armor in Turning Tide is nowhere near as good as BGG. Disagree? Ok, then why in a game that is points based can my 5 CV Shermans from Turning Tide cost me 450 points and in BGG they cost me 415? Same era here. Let's make it worse, take my BGG Shermans and give them an additional 2" move. Now my 5 CV BGG Shermans cost 440, still cheaper than Turning Tide and they move further! Yes, the equipment got better later in the war. But in the game mechanic, we are in the same era and we are a points based game. The same vehicle with better stats should not be cheaper in the same era!

So forgive me, but like my beloved Chicago Cubs, I can root for them and still complain and criticize their horrid pitching and hitting. And I can complain about Michigan State and Northwestern (alma maters) when they lose a game. But I still bleed for those teams and I want to see them win.

I want BF to succeed just like I want my team to win. But I just see some things that I would love to see improved. And if I offended anyone, it was by no means intentional.

Wow - No June Post!!

Holy cow!  A whole month went by and I had no post.  I guess I should put an update out there!

I am in the process of completing my MW Nats Historicon list.  I already submitted the list to Joe Krone, but I needed to paint up some units to fill out the list.  Other than a few basing options, I am good to go!!

I am fielding a US Rifle MW list.  It was really tough, since I thought long and hard about Armored Rifles.  But in the end, Rifles are the winner.

Here are my thoughts regarding US Rifles and infantry in general in FoW:

1. Battlefront is doing everything they can to move away from "tank fest."  One example is the change in V3 for repelling an armored assault.  If I just get two "bad things" to happen to the assaulting armor platoon in Defensive Fire, then the assault stops.  Think about 5 tanks assaulting US Armored Rifles. I have 5 bazookas that can shoot over friendly teams at vehicles.  Assume I get all 5 in the 8" bubble.  5 shots needing 4+ to stop the assault.  Done.  Say you pin me, now I need 5+ on 5 shots.  You will only get by me 55% of the time (rough math).  Say you are Soviet.  Sweet!  Now I need a base of 3+ in LW and 2+ in MW!  And you have 10 targets, which will bring in a much larger bubble.
2. Gun saves.  As long as my guns stay silent, they are GtG and get the 3+ save.  At some point, you will have to get closer than 24" and the guns will open up.
3. In Devil's Charge (saw the preview copy on Friday), you can replace one infantry stand with a bazooka in each squad.  Basic Rifle Platoon is 9 infantry stands (three squads), command stand and a bazooka.  Now I can have 6 infantry stands, command stand and 4 bazookas.  I can also combat attach HMG platoons (each with two bazookas if you upgrade) and a Weapons platoon.  So add 2 HMGs to each platoon and another bazooka.  And don't underestimate the power of automatic rifles...
4. I can take TDs as support.  My MW list has Shermans and M10s.  In MW, these are beasts.  Yes, they are priced like beasts, but I will be defending against most everything.  Give me an ambush and then it gets awesome...
5. US Rifle Platoon Commanders can call in arty.  Yes, they could always do this before.  Again, don't underestimate the power of this national rule.

The good news is that all US lists are feeling the love right now.  The bad news is that my Turning Tide book is done for...

For competitive play, all US lists will come from BGG and DC.  Time will tell what Nuts! has in store for the US.

And to all going to Historicon - please, be sure to say "hi" to me!  James / Chairborne was awesome at Adepticon.  He just comes up to me and says "Are you Webgriffin?"  We get to talking and even have dinner with a group on the Saturday after the tournament.  So don't be a stranger and be sure to look for the loser Wisconsin guy!  I will be on the Baby Seal table!!

Local Tourney Results (my first win!!)

This past Saturday, Mike (cornishkeebler) ran a local tournament for the group.  We wanted to call it the "Wisconsin Championships", as we tried to invite everyone from the state to the tournament.  We did get three great players from LaCrosse to come down and play!  We had a total of 12 players.

Before I get into the details, I did want to thank my three opponents - Rob, John Pickle and Bill "Mad Hungarian".

The tourney was a Mid-War 1,625 with three rounds.  The missions were Fighting Withdrawal, Breakthrough and Free For All.

My list for the tournament:

US Rifles - Confident Trained

HQ - 2 Command Carbine Stands
Platoon 1: US Rifles (with 'zook)
Platoon 2: US Rifles (with 'zook)
Platoon 3: HMG platoon (combat attached to rifles above)
Platoon 4: Tank Destroyers (4 M10s)
Platoon 5: 4 Shermans
Platoon 6: 57mm AT Guns (3) with 2 bazookas
Platoon 7: Arty - 4 105mm Guns
1,620

Round 1:

I drew Rob in a Fighting Withdrawal mission.  He ran a FJ list with 2 FJ platoons, a Tiger platoon (Tiger and Panzer III) and a Ferdinand.  We diced off and Rob was attacker.

Here is a picture of the end state -



I put my objective in the back middle, slightly off center to the left.  It is located just between the building and the road.  Rob put his on the left in the field and the right in the field.  Rob pushed forward in the middle with one FJ platoon, the right objective with another FJ platoon.  He ran the Tiger on the far left and the Ferdinand went up the middle.

I deployed the 105 on the far right, a rifle platoon inbetween the rigth and middle objective, another rifle on the left objective that also strattled the middle objective, Shermans and Security Section of the TD in the middle with the AT guns in ambush.

Basically, I was able to get MG shots from the Shermans on the FJ in the middle, I smoked the Ferdinand every turn I could and I sent the TDs to take the Tiger platoon.  On Turn 4, I was able to kill the Ferdinand by concentrating the Shermans, the AT guns to bail and then assaulted with the two bazookas.  The end result was a dead Ferdinand.  The M10s took care of the Tiger and the Panzer escort.  Basically, I pulled the 105s and then the AT guns right after the assault on the Ferdinand.  That left Rob with 2 FJ platoons and there was no way he was going to do anything.  We shook on a 6-1 win for me.

Round 2:
Breakthrough vs. Pickle's German recon list

Here is the end picture -


Basically, Pickle put everything in Reserve that he could.  He put an 88 gun, nebs, Pak 40s and another light AA gun on the board.  His foot soldiers were in Reserves, with Marders.

The short version is that I just couldn't move and dig-in again without getting blasted.  And I could not kill his stuff quick enough.  Bloody battle ensued when his Reserves came on, but I could not break him.  It was really close, but in the end I came up just short for a 3-4 loss.

Round 3:
Free For All vs. Bill's Hungarian Armor

Bill did not have a list for me, but this is what I remember:

HQ - 1iC and 2iC in a light tank I think
Platoon 1: Hungarian Panzer IV
Platoon 2: German Marders
Platoon 3: Hungarian Panzer III
Platoon 4: Hungarian Recon tanks
Platoon 5: Hungarian SP AA Whirblewind or something like it
Ok, I did not get any pictures, but here is a picture of the empty board -


I defended on the bottom edge.  Bill put an objective just to the left of the orchard trees and just to the left of the building in the lower right of the picture.  I put my objective in the large bombed out building in the upper middle and in the far upper left corner.

The game was tight, until Turn 4 or 5 when I was able to wipe 3 platoons off the board at the same time.  I had already killed the SP AA, but then I added the Recon Tank, the Panzer III and the Marders to the kill list.  That caused Bill to roll for Company Morale and he did not make it.  However, had he made it he would have continued to roll.  Even if we got to turn 20, he would have eventually lost.  6-1 to me.

My final score was 19 points, since the tourney added 2 points for a 6-1, 1.5 points for a 5-2 and 1 point for a 4-3.  I went 6-1, 3-4 and 6-1.

However, the players above me ended up in a "draw" (3-1) and Pickle had another 4-3 bloodbath.  That caused me to "submarine" to win!  I was shocked, but two 6-1 wins go a long way.

And that was how I won my very first tournament!

Wohoo!!

AAR - MW 1,625 Fighting Withdrawal

Ok.  I think my browser issue is under control, so I can now put up a posting without it looking like a ransom note.

In preparation for a tournament that is upcoming this weekend, we ran a 1,625 MW mission during the regular Wednesday night games.  With 7 players in attendance, we rolled off to see who would fight each other.  I got Joe...  Ouch.  Great player.  With a Soviet Lee Horde list.  Ugh.

I ran US Rifles for the first time in a really, really long time.  So a first in V3 for me!

My list:

Confident Trained USA Infantry
HQ - 2 Command Carbine Teams.
Platoon 1: Rifle Platoon with zook
Platoon 2: Rifle Platoon with zook
Platoon 3: MG Platoon that was combat attached to the Rifle Platoons, resulting in a 13 stand platoon!
Platoon 4: AT Platoon with 3 57mm AT Guns and 2 zooks
Platoon 5: 4 Shermans
Platoon 6: TD Platoon with 4 M10s (CAN'T LEAVE HOME WITHOUT TDS NOW!!!)
Platoon 7: 4 Gun Arty Battery of 105mm guns

Joe's list:

Fearless Conscript Soviet Tankovy
HQ - Battalion commander in a Lee
Company 1: 10 Lees with AT 10 (long barrel)
Company 2: 10 Lees with AT 10 (long barrel)
Company 3: 10 Stuarts (M3)
Platoon 4: 3 BT 64 or something like that

Ok, no pictures.  I need to take more with my phone, but I just forget to do so!!  And folks want pictures!!

I defended and placed my objective off center.  Joe went with his objectives on each flank.  The terrain was heavy, but there was a natural alley for Joe to move down each flank.  In addition, I could not see across my deployment zone, so each flank would be isolated.  Think of it this way - the middle could only see the middle and the ends could only see the ends.  This could be bad...

I attached the HMGs into the Rifles and put one platoon one each flank objective.  Since Joe did not have any templates, I bunched them tightly together in order to maximize Defensive Fire shots and bring more stands in the Counter Assault.  One the far left, I placed the 105mm and put the commander and staff team out of LoS in woods.  Shermans were dead middle and the TD Security Section was also dead middle.  I put the AT guns in ambush.

Joe massed everything and I mean everything for a rush on the far right objective.  Recce moves saw me move the Sec Section into an area for TD deployment.  Joe’s recce moved forward to 16.1” from the Rifle platoon.  I put my 1ic and 2ic in the platoon of Rifles on the far right objective and the observer in the open (dug-in) that had clear LoS all the way up his alley.

Turn 1:

Bullrush.  His recce spread out to prevent my TD ambush from popping in woods near him.  Lees and Stewies blast forward.  Few shots, nothing killed or pinned.

I move the Sherms to the right flank.  I double time the Rifles from the left – but still in a position that I can run back if he decides to switch up.  This is unlikely as he is only a few inches from the far right board edge.  I popped the TDs feeling that I had to do so or I would risk letting him get in a position that would really prevent me from getting the TDs out.  I also popped the AT gun ambush because I wanted the Recce gone.  I moved the M10s into woods and positioned myself where my 6” range for LoS would get his Recce only.  After shooting, all recce teams are gone as he could not disengage due to shooting them at the Rifles.  One platoon down.  I did range in the 105s on the first roll, so ToT!  I have 11 tanks under the template, but only bailed 1 and killed 1.  Oh, the AT guns never fired because the TDs wiped them out.  Oh, well – better to have them and not need than to need and not have…

Turn 2 / 3 / 4 / 5:

Got to be a blur.  Joe did kill the TDs, but it took him 2 or 3 turns to do so.  He also wiped out the Shermans, but that took until turn 4 or 5.  He assaulted the Rifles, we traded two rounds, then I pulled back.  Rifles did not dig back in for 3 turns, but survived all firing.  I ranged in from the 105s in turn 2, got ToT again and only bailed one tank! Ouch again!

But the hero platoon of the game were the AT guns!!  RoF3 at Conscript tanks is just ridiculous.  I wiped the Stewies down to the flippin’ commander and Joe hid him after that.  I gutted the Lees to a Company of 1 tank (no Commander) and a Company of 4 tanks (with Commander).  Battalion (ok, Batalon) Commander was still around, but he was over with the lone Stewart.  I pulled the 105s in Turn 3 as I had 6 platoons on the board at the time.  At the end (time / store closing), Joe did a suicide Assault on the remnants of the Rifle platoon.  I killed both the 1iC and the Stewie commander.  My other Rifle platoon was able to get to the middle objective, dig-in and even get some ‘zook shots off on a Lee Company.  In the end, 4-3 USA.

Ending Thoughts:

By Turn 5, Joe was playing for the Company Morale roll.  It was a bloody mess and there were something like 30 buring hulks of Soviet and US tanks on the table.  Conscript is tough to play with - they simply get hit a zillion times.  Yes, they get a crap ton of attack dice, but assaulting with Conscripts is tough to pull off - especially with integrated AT and AT in support.  Once the Rifles were close enough to drag the AT guns into Defensive Fire, that platoon was safe from assaults.  So the last turn move of Joe assaulting was a desperate move based more on time than any tactical mistake on his part.

Fun, bloody, 4-3 that could have gone a different way with a few roles.

My kind of game!

TDC / TFA

As the discussion continues to wage regarding the Tank Destroyer Company / Fask Force A, I thought I would share a few thoughts on possible "enhancements" to the rules / forces that might mitigate problem.  The current "nasty" version of the TDC has two M18 platoons, a towed platoon, armored rifles and Patton.  I don't have the specifics right in front of me, but at 1,750 you can get 6 platoons.

In my view, there are three groups of people that are forming when we discuss TDC / TFA.  While I understand some frustration over the rules governing a single platoon (I still remember the look of cornishkeebler's face when I pulled TFA out for the first time in V3), the big issues arise when you have three.

So here are the three groups:

1) Those that think there is a problem with the TDC / TFA.

2) Those that do not think there is a problem with the TDC / TFA.

3) Those advocating more data.

I have no issue at all with whatever group folks fall into.  I have my view and it continues to evolve.  I happen to fall into #1, but I do not believe TDC / TFA is wacked out like the BAR.  So a gentle hand may be all that is needed to "fix" the issue.  If - and that is a BIG IF - Battlefront does something, I hope it is after time / testing and that the changes represent "tweaks."  Some suggestions (most are other folk's thoughts):

1) Remove recon ability

2) Reduce RoF when the ambush pops

3) Do something to make the Sec Section "count"

4) Remove the ability to "suicide" the Sec Section by moving at the double

5) Remove the recon ability from the TDs themselves

6) Do not give the Sec Section a recon move

7) Do not allow the "jumping" of terrain, obstacles, etc. when the TDs pop.  Something like the TDs cannot be closer to an enemy team than the Sec Section...

8) Do not give the "non-TD" teams recon ability (command carbine and bazookas from the towed platoon)

9) Do not allow the lifting of GtG the turn that the TDs pop

10) Force the TDs to be IN terrain or completely out of LoS when they pop

11) The ever-popular increasing of points

12) Do not allow the TDC to take Patton

13) Do nothing - that is always a choice...

It goes without saying that doing all 11 would be nuts.  But if anything is done, it has to be a gentle change because I do think the list is not invincible by any stretch.

Nerf US TDs!?!?!?!

And so it begins...

The "long awaited" Nerf US TD thread was started.  Feel free to check it out on the FoW forums.  I will wait for a bit before I expand even further on my post.

Having said that, this is not the BAR.  That was a whole different level of wackiness!!